How They Crushed It

Mike Naylor | Telemarketer to Mortgage CEO, Putting Relationships First, & Being Exceptional

• Direct Mortgage Loans • Season 1 • Episode 6

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In this episode, Mike Naylor, co-founder and CEO of Direct Mortgage Loans, shares his journey in the mortgage industry and the lessons he has learned along the way. He emphasizes the importance of perseverance, surrounding yourself with people who are better than you, and prioritizing the success of your team. Naylor also discusses the transition from sales to marketing and the significance of building relationships in business. Overall, his story highlights the value of continuous learning, adaptability, and a strong work ethic in achieving success.

Direct Mortgage Loans (00:

00.11) I have so much more way to go. More crushing to do. Our people have to be successful first. You have to create a big enough world that everybody has room to be big within it. I was gonna go sit in the lobby for two days until I could get an interview. What did I do that maybe set me apart is I just never gave up. One foot in front of the other. Surround yourself with people that are better than you. To get a promotion, you don't get it for doing your job, you get it for being exceptional at your job. That's the day one of the DML story. I noticed you pulled your glasses down, is this where we're getting into the serious part of the podcast? Hey everybody, welcome to episode six of the How They Crushed It podcast. My friend and colleague Mike Naylor from Direct Mortgage Loans will be on here today, our co -founder and CEO. By the way, you know our podcast is sponsored by Direct Mortgage Loans where I choose to spend my time and work now these days. Our segments, as you all know, we start off with a little short snippet where we hit Mike with some rapid fire Googleable questions to get him loosened up. He tells us his life and business story. back from Little Mike and then we talk about his sales and marketing story and we get topical and tactical as to what's working for him and helping him crush it right now today. So without further ado, my friend Mike Naylor will be in the studio with us today. Welcome everybody to episode six of the How They Crushed It podcast sponsored by Direct Mortgage Loans where I work and the company founded by this guy, our guest today. Our guest today is Mike Naylor, co -founder and CEO of Direct Mortgage Loans. Been in business for how long now? There's a discussion, but certainly over 12 years. Okay, over 12 years based here in Baltimore, Maryland, Hun Valley, Maryland now, but a Maryland based company. As you guys know, who've ever listened to us before, and if you haven't, we have really four segments. We start off and we ask Mike some, questions rapid fire about things that Google has given us answers to, to have a little fun. We get into Mike's how he got started in business, the young Mike story and how he started crushing it in business. We then follow that up with the sales and marketing story. Again, this is a sales and marketing podcast. We hope anybody in any industry can get some tips and best practices and ideas out of this. And Mike is definitely a sales guy and a marketer, so he will be great to talk to. And then...

Direct Mortgage Loans (02:

05.71) We always get topical near the end and talk about what's going on right now. And by the way, it's early March. We'll talk about that, what Mike's doing right now to continue crushing it. So welcome, my friend. Thank you. Yeah. Mike is the CEO. We've been friends for, I think you and I have been friends for over 10 years. We were competitors and now, now we're together. So Mike's been crushing it a long time. So Mike, we do this. We have some fun to get started just to kind of loosen you up. Hit me. Okay. Mike, and Mike is a fan of the podcast, everybody. He sends me a subscriber. Subscriber, he sends me screenshots where I'm next to like famous podcasters with a lot more views sometimes, which is Joe Rogan and Kid Rock was the last one I sent you. Joe Rogan and Kid Rock, everybody, and Dean Johnson and Mike Miller. So, Mike, I know you're going to get the first one. I asked Google the answers to these. What's the most famous sandwich available at the Masters? Well, it's the pimento cheese sandwich. Pimento cheese. Have you ever eaten one? I have. I've had one too. I'm going this year, everybody, but I have I have eaten one. I've got a good one here. We asked this recently to somebody else. Do you know what the term Riz means? 0 .0 ideas. Riz, which you need to learn, my teen son and my 22 year old son have told me is short for charisma. And it's a term that youngsters use now to say, I got a lot of, you know, they. I'm pick that up. When they're telling somebody, you know, that they're interested in that they've got Riz, maybe that means they don't have Riz, by the way. Do you have Riz? Some days, I've been told. I don't think I have a lot of Riz. All right. And so I actually I do in certain contexts. Dean Johnson has Riz. We need to ask Nicole Johnson if Dean Johnson has Riz. That might be worth it. We'll get a comment down below for later. But when is Father's Day, Mike? It is the Sunday of the second weekend in June, usually. June 16th this year. And Mike, I got a new question I've asked people before since we are crushing it and how they crushed it. What's the original flavor of a crush? The ingredients? Yeah, which flavor is the first ever crush? Oh, it's a good question. I would probably say orange. It's an orange crush. Yeah, that's why. Well, your company's colors are orange and, you know, we're orange here, but what's your favorite crush? Orange, for sure. Not grapefruit? You ever go grapefruit? No, I mean, to mix it up. And sometimes I'll give you a special one. If you mix orange crush and grapefruit crush, it makes a very good crush. Earlier podcast guest Casey Brooks, I hope you hear that one.

Direct Mortgage Loans (04:

20.077) orange and grapefruit mix. We'll check that. Has he ever served you one of those? I think I've gotten a couple there, yeah. A couple dozen maybe. Yeah, me as well. Well, let's get into, you know, I always start off the same way. Like, you're definitely, you have a business that's crushing it. You've had a great story. I know some of it. I don't know all of it. Talk to me about Little Mike and, you know, give me a little bit of the backstory and how Little Mike, more importantly than all the Little League home runs, which I know Little Mike had, how did Little Mike get an interest in business and kind of transition into wanting to be an entrepreneur or? Was he born of an entrepreneur? And you know, the backstory, any of that stuff, just take us back there. Yeah, good question. All right. Well, I would say that little Mike, four -year -old Mike Naylor, when he was running around the house in a Superman costume or whatever I had on that day, certainly never imagined I'd be in the mortgage business for sure. Thought I'd be an astronaut or shortstop for the Orioles or something like that. None of us aspired to this growing up from the womb. We want to be mortgage guys. It didn't come that way, I guess. I don't know. Both my parents are entrepreneurs. and owners of small businesses. So maybe I was born with it or bred with it, but you know, one decision and one failure and one success and one loss probably led me into the mortgage business. And here I am. Probably my first job I can ever remember having was a telemarketer when I was 16, which coincidentally was for a mortgage company. Was it real? I didn't know that. It was a friend's dad had a mortgage company in Towson and I would smile and dial. And that was my job. Like, I don't know. Well, let me ask you a question. Were you intimidated by that at that point? You're 16. I mean, I know a lot about you now, but was that intimidating to you? Yeah, sure. A 16 -year -old. And this is back in the days where I was photocopying a Yellow Pages. Oh my goodness. And that was what I called. And we would... try to get somebody to talk to a loan officer and off we went. And how did you do? I don't know this part. I mean, how successful or unsuccessful were you? I think I was a valued member of the company at that point. And how long did you do that? I did it like in the summers, you know, and like I needed to make money to pay for my car insurance and cell phone bill and stuff like that. Wow. So 16 years old is pretty much, you know, that's not completely in the womb, but you know, but that's pretty early to be started in the mortgage business.

Direct Mortgage Loans (06:

37.614) Our buddy Blake Hyatt who works here with us and was also an earlier guest, did the same thing at 16. 16. You're a little older than him, but he did 16 too. Am I? No, we're not gonna, we won't go there. We're not IDing anybody, are we Tiff? No, we are not. Tell me about some of the others. I know you had another pretty great story, college age. You had a very entrepreneurial job then. Yeah, I came back from my first year of college, answered an ad. It was a very mysterious ad. I didn't know what it was. Showed up on. to the interview and ended up being that it was selling cutco knives, which had I known that probably going in, I would have been too afraid or decided it wasn't for me. So I'm glad I didn't know. It ended up being a really good experience for me. Was a top salesperson in Maryland, DC. Learned the sales pitch, learned the steps of the sale, learned how to get my teeth kicked in. It wasn't necessarily door to door, but it was developing business where I would. You start with your friends and family and then... You've got some funny stories. Give us one. I mean, a teeth -kicked -in story. Teeth -kicked story. Actually, give us a great success, too. Okay. Well, I'll give you an interesting story, certainly like an early managerial story. So I was the top producer that year. That same year, I actually met lifelong top producer at DML, Jeff Dobrikowski, and we would... ride along to each other's appointments that first summer we both did really well. The next summer we both got promoted to managers and I was like an assistant division manager or something, some made out thing. Like the assistant to the division president? No, no, there was no two, but there probably should have been. But that gave me great experience where I learned how to hire and fire and run training and manage people. You're what, 18, 19? Public speak. Yeah, I was 19, but I probably looked 14. I would say at that point, I was a late bloomer, a bit of a late bloomer. So in any event, that was great and we would run these call nights there where, that was how you develop businesses, you make cold calls, people never met you before and you ask them, can I come into your house with a pack of knives and sell them to you? And that's a tricky phone call to make. Let me show up at your house with a pack of knives, you've never met me. No big deal. As I was kind of training the new salespeople, we had the call nights, we would duct tape,

Direct Mortgage Loans (08:

53.914) people's hands to the phone so they never put the phone down and I mean it was obviously all in good fun and everybody was on board with it but it made for a funny night where somebody got to unwrap the duct tape because they made their... they made their calls. You know, that could be, let's take a time out for a second. That could be something we institute here at Direct Mortgage Loans. It could probably be a serious HR violation, but back in the day that was a selling nun. See, is CEO Mike, everybody. You know, I want to duct tape the cell phone. Oh, I'd love to do it. I think it would help. It would still help me. It would help anybody do it. You can't put the phone down. You can't unduct tape your hand until you made your phone call. That's wonderful. And, you know, so do you, I got a big one. Do you carry any of those? Cutco lessons with you all the way to this point as CEO? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, just in stories and, you know, I think that put me as a 19 -year -old public speaking in front of people. I got, you know, good experience there and running trainings and, you know, all kinds of things. Some of our other guests have said it too. I mean, it's those formative years. You just, you can't un -remember it. You can't, and it's a feeling more so than a specific lesson, I think. Yeah. But, you know, I... It's funny now that you tell me these stories. I see some of it in you. It's great. Any industry, it's what I've learned from starting to host this stuff, any industry, those lessons are all, they apply to everybody. You know? For sure. Duct tape the phone to the hands. There was a trick with a room full of people where you would memorize everybody's name and you'd go around the room of 20 people and you'd tell everybody their name to start the meeting and it really grabbed everybody's attention. So sometimes that's something that I'd pull out. I But give me a teeth kicked in story, because I know you've got some. I mean, this is... You know? Well, I got kicked out of a house within like five minutes of being there. I don't know what was going on there, but I went and I thought it was going to be a really good appointment. I had maybe had a little bit of like a sniffle or something, and I wasn't used to getting rejected too often, you know, or certainly getting kicked out of the house. I could handle it. And.

Direct Mortgage Loans (10:

49.198) and they kicked me out pretty quickly there. It was an interesting evening, yeah. Well, you can't unforgettable those either. I know that. You probably know where that house is, I would guess. I definitely know right where the house is. That's funny, that's really funny. So how do you, okay, so, I mean, obviously I know you went to college, you graduated college. What led you to the mortgage industry? Well, ironically enough, there was a moment in time where I thought I wanted to be an attorney, and like a lot of people my age and younger or above, like my... ADHD prevents me from taking tests very well. So I worked for Peter Angelos for a summer, working on like tobacco cases and things like that. And went to go take the LSATs and couldn't break the Mendoza line. Okay, gotcha. And he married an attorney, by the way, everybody. And she doesn't let me forget the LSAT comparison scores. He helps write some of our, you know, he doesn't do the heavy lifting, but he likes to do a little bit of legal writing. Hi, Joe. I fancy myself as a bit of a lewis scribe. well. And then immediately gets tossed out and says you can't write. The most recent thing I wrote and gave to her, she reworked. How's that for... Punched it up. Correct. So anyway, I graduated college and actually this is kind of a funny story that led me to that. So I was home doing interviews on Christmas break and my wife and I had been together since we were 16 and... I was home and I had two interviews set up. I knew I was good at sales and I love sports. So I had an interview lined up at Fila and the other company at that point that I wanted to try to work for was Under Armour and this was like 2004. So there was, it might even be 2003, but they were like, you know, making sweatshirts at this point. They weren't, weren't huge yet. You know, my plan with Under Armour was I was going to go sit in the lobby for two days until I could get an interview. Ended up it didn't work out. They didn't, they never had me back. Hold on, another time out. Did you sit in the lobby for two days? For two full days, yeah. I showed up in the morning, dressed for success, and I went to the receptionist and said, hi, I really like this company and I would like to work here. Is there somebody that could give me an interview? And she said, I will ask around. And so she went around and said, yeah, there's a couple people that said at some point today they'd like to interview you. Like, you can come back. I'll just sit right here.

Direct Mortgage Loans (13:

08.622) And I'll wait. And I, you know, at one point, Kevin Plank walked past and, you know, at another point somebody else walked past. But after two days, the lady said, listen, leave your name and number. I see how persistent there's somebody's going to call you back based on like, everybody knows you're here. Like every, all 10 employees or whatever they had, they know you're here. But they didn't call me back. That same week, I had an interview at Fila and my car was still at college. This was Christmas break. And so I borrowed my father and my now father -in -law's car to go to the interview. And at the intersection, not too far from this building, I was making a left -hand turn and it was snowing and a car T -boned my father -in -law's car with me in it. By the way, everybody, catch that little detail. It's not his father -in -law yet. Yeah, yeah, future father -in -law, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which might be a little less forgiving than a current father -in -law. But anyway. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, but he's the coolest dude in the world and he certainly was cool with it. But... Anyway, so get T -boned and don't make the interview and they won't have me. They said, sorry, you missed your interview, which I was like, okay, interesting. So me and the sports world and sales were out the window at that point and I needed a job. I had now gone back home, went back to college and then come back in the summer and needed to get a job. I had a friend who was from Cutco that at that point was doing pretty well in the mortgage business and said like, hey, you'd be really good at this. You should give it a shot. And so she set me up with an interview. I got a job and it turns out I'm right back to my bread and butter of being a telemarketer in the mortgage business. Five years later, you had not the, you had a college degree and you were back right there. No duct tape though. Yeah, no duct tape. There should have been, but there was no duct tape. Yeah. So, wow. So you start out as a telemarketer and you're running a big company now, very successfully, but talk to us about that from telemarketer. I mean, they're, There's gotta be a story from telemarketer to I wanna do this. Yeah, I've been lucky with relationships. On the first day of my first job out of college, which is my first real job, sitting next to me is my now business partner. So I met Ashley on my first day, it was his seventh day, and they told us we had to sit in the chair for six months. And if we did well enough.

Direct Mortgage Loans (15:

25.614) we would be back next week. And so, you know, we couldn't get promoted essentially for six months, but this is a week to week job. So go get them. No pressure. Go get them. And by the way, here's another page we photocopied out of the yellow pages. Your job is to get people interested in talking to a loan officer. So on we went. And how was and how did you do? It was horrible. I did fine because I had had some prior experience of getting people from, F you, why are you calling me to. hey listen, thank you for calling me to, yeah actually that sounds pretty good. So I would recommend to anyone that's looking to get in sales, you have to get, you have to start at the most basic sales level, getting your teeth kicked in, learning how to turn a conversation from never call me again to like, hey that sounds pretty interesting. But I know your mindset in business pretty much now that we've worked together, but I mean you're a guy that views opportunities the way I've always. you're a person who sees the opportunity as opposed to sees the challenges. Is that a, I think that's a fair assessment? Very fair, yes. Well, was that there back then? Like when you were there, were you, was that young Mike saying, hey, there's an opportunity here or did you just, I mean, talk to me about your mindset because you created success with it. Well, I was probably still incredibly immature. I was wearing a JCPenney suits to work. Oh man, I'm... JC Penney Suits, big plug for JC Penney, I love this. And Ashley and I were going and eating real thing cheese steaks every day at lunch. So my JC Penney Suits started not fitting me as well during my employment. Yeah, this is the things you learn after you get out of college, I guess. JC Penney Suits. But yeah, no, I looked at it as they're successful. It was a cool company. I mean, there was lots of people doing really well, the CEO thought. really big and maybe even too big at times and had a cool, fun culture at that point. And, you know, at least there was some proof of concept. So, you know, I understood that, you know, in order to get to that next level, I had to be the absolute best at doing this. I mean, to get a promotion, you don't get it for doing your job. You get it for being exceptional at your job. And so, you know, that was my mindset. I'm very competitive. Like if you showed me a board, this was the way it was at Cutco.

Direct Mortgage Loans (17:

44.078) I wanted to know who was number one and I wanted to put a plan in place to go after how to be number one. And so, you know, fortunately I had Ashley next to me and we didn't like each other, but really the first week it was pretty competitive at that point. No, yeah, no, we've, you know, we've been together 20 years this year working together. And so we were very competitive the first week, you know, we gained a little bit of respect for each other the second week. And by the third week, we were fast friends on our way to a real thing every day together. I love hearing that though. It's something I've said to my own kids and I've referenced them on this podcast before, but be exceptional. Shoot to be exceptional. And I think that's a great little nugget for people to take away today. That's the first one, because it doesn't matter if you're telemarketing, be exceptional. That's where opportunities come from. Okay, so you were a couple of weeks in now and the mortgage business is spinning like it still is today. What gets you guys moved on to something? Because you're not still out. dialing right now in 2024. So something moved you guys out of it. I don't know. I'm restoring a passion here. All this telemarketing talk I might want to get on the phone today. All DML people be worried if Mike walks into your office with duct tape. Yeah, good point. Amazon. Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, so from there, Ashley and I were actually both promoted the same day. We were promoted in six weeks, which was like a, I don't know, that was a big deal for us. It seemed like it was a big deal at the time. We worked our way up, he and I were one and two in the company in sales the next year. So that first six months was kind of learning the business. Our first full year, he and I were number one at the company. There was 150 LOs, and we're talking about 2005 at this point. Refis, refis were pretty plentiful then. Yeah, this was all refi. That's just where we were. And so that was cool, then they promoted us to branch managers, sales managers, and by our third year there. we had been put in charge of the 150 person sales floor. So we were two young green people that can't manage our own lives now in charge with managing the 150 person sales floor. And we have absolutely no idea what we're doing and zero respect from the floor because most of the people there felt like they should have the job that we had at that So you're 23, you probably look 19 at this point. I'm 24 and I look 14, maybe 13. You still look 14. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The lesson that we learned at that spot and it...

Direct Mortgage Loans (20:

04.974) probably comes from a little bit failing forward, but was that our people have to be successful first. There's no way that Ashley and I could gain respect or even be successful in our own position if the people that worked with us weren't successful first. I see that now in the way you lead now. So I want everybody to hear that when people, your people do need to be successful first. The company can't rise if the people aren't successful ahead of the leader being successful. And I credit you with that because I see you do it today. Yeah, thank you. So that's a foundational thing for you and Ashley. You guys learned it way back then? Very important. Yeah, so that worked well and we had a good culture on the sales floor and in 2007 we're talking about now there was a website called the Implodometer and that tracked every morning and all throughout the day which mortgage companies were going out of business. Dozens of days. For those who don't know, in the 08, 09 era of the mortgage industry when there was the banking crisis, there was a website. I don't know, we don't know who ran it, but it literally listed companies that went out of business every day. So when companies shut down, that's where it listed. It's kind of a bizarre thing, but I used to follow it as well. Yeah. I mean, you go in and make sure you had a job before you kind of started doing the job. Doing the job, right. Every morning. So essentially, the CEO came to us and said, hey, you know, we need to probably revamp some of the things we're doing. And we said, great, like, as our kind of first initiative here, we will rewrite a business plan for the go -forward on the sales side of things. And we got no idea about ops, but like, we can certainly tackle the sales thing. So we do it, we spend a few weeks, we put the plan in place, we give it to the CEO, and the CEO says, thanks, but no thanks, we're not gonna do this. And we were like, cool. This is a challenge because now we've been put into place to lead, but we're not being trusted to lead. So this was probably the second lesson that we learned in that, which is if you are going to put someone in a place to help you build something, you better trust them to do it. Make the right decision on the hire, but when you do, allow them to do all the things that you have visualized them doing.

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25.966) from before the interview process through the interview process and now that you've written the role. Yeah, and a lot of companies just aren't, they're not that forward thinking. I mean, I don't know that they trusted you or didn't trust you. I wasn't there, but you were thinking bigger than they were. Is that a good way to put it? It is, but I'd also say that it's a lesson that every leader or manager has to learn along the way, which is there's people that you have in place that are most likely better than you at that task. and you have to do it. And that's everybody from Jeff Bezos to Dean Johnson to Pam Vroman who was in the seat before me, which is every leader along the way has to learn how to let go and trust the people that they have. It's a big lesson. It's a big lesson. Let go and let people fly and your world, something you and I have talked about off camera before, you have to create a big enough world that everybody has room to be big within it. Is that the way you - Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the Warren Buffett. quote stands out where he said, or it was Bill Gates actually, Bill Gates said, you know, if you wanna go fast, go alone, if you wanna go far, go together, so. Great one, man. Yeah. Great one, great one. So look, you've talked a lot about sales, and I know this about you, that you're a student of sales. Let's switch to marketing a little bit. So you guys start. Well, let me go back to this one spot, because you're asking me what led me to where I am now, which is. I love it. So we had this business plan, and. we felt like it would work. It was centered around better products and better offerings for our clients and a re -imagined budget where we're not spending money on things that don't matter in our business and we're spending things on the right thing, which is our people and our marketing. And so we had this business plan and we looked at each other and said, well, we're young enough and have nothing to lose. Why don't we take a shot on ourselves? So. We did that and we had three options at the point. We could be a broker at that point, which it seemed like at that point brokers were being phased out a good bit. We could do what we're doing now as a full -scale mortgage lender, but we didn't have the money. Or we could start as a branch. And Jan Oska, who was an account rep for us at that point prior to leaving, had just left to go to be the president of another mortgage company. And Jan was our first call and we said, hey, can we be your first branch? And...

Direct Mortgage Loans (24:

46.67) He said, come on in. That's wonderful. So that's the day one of the DML story. I'm always fascinated, Mike, by you left one, there's a word you didn't use that I want to throw in. Do you think your naivete helped you at that point? Yeah, oh, a million percent. I mean, if I was 41 year old Mike now talking to 25 year old Mike, I'd tell him he's crazy. I mean, you got to remember, this is a time where my parents would have probably been more proud of me if I was a drug dealer than if I was in the mortgage business. That's a great one. Do your parents watch this podcast? Because I want to see what their comment is on this one. Look, Deb Naylor is a big like and share. I imagine that Deb Naylor is going to have. More proud of Mike being a drug dealer. That's a good one. I don't think she really would have, but you know what I mean. Yeah. So Mike, the story about launching DML and getting there is a great one. I am always fascinated, though, and I want to talk a little bit about sales and marketing in a different context. So I love how far, I mean, you were doing sales. when you were 16, now you and Ashley have stepped out and you're running a business, how is your sales and marketing story different at that point in your career than it was in the early points of your career? Or was it similar at that point? I noticed you pulled your glasses down. Is this where we're getting into the serious part of the podcast? Mike thinks that I look really serious when I drop the glasses after question, but it's inadvertent. It's they have a glare. Well. We'll see. Okay, so you've asked me about how do I transition from sales to marketing? I just mean as you're becoming more mature as a leader and now you have a real company as opposed to just telemarketing, talk to me about the differences in sales and marketing that apply to your business. I'm just trying to pull out ideas that other people can take out of you as you grow in your career. Because you were a guy doing sales almost from birth, 16 years old, pretty close. So now you and Ashley start a company and you have to start selling it. How's that different at that point in your career?

Direct Mortgage Loans (26:

42.292) Different than what it was before? Yeah. And then I'm eventually gonna ask you different than it and how is it different now? Well, we're selling a different product now than we were then. I think in a couple different ways. One, when we were early on and probably even up to like 2011, we were selling all refinances. We were 99 .9 % refinance unless one of us bought a house or something. I always like that joke. We did one purchase, I bought a house. Yeah, all right, good. You know, so that's different because that's... phone sales and that's fielding inbound phone calls and mailers and that type of thing. Around that time we realized that if this was gonna be more than a hobby, we needed to transition to more relationship building and more of the steadier product in our industry which is the purchase loans. And obviously we still do refis a little bit but the purchase loan is something that people are always gonna buy and sell houses. So with refis it's way more market driven as we're seeing. in this current market. So around that point, we realized that we needed to focus on building relationships. It was something that we enjoyed doing anyway, but we would need to keep the refi business running and one of us would need to go out and push that agenda. And so I started making friends and in the real estate side of things, we did a lot of research on where mortgage companies were winning and where they were dropping the ball. I went, we went to the sales staff and said, this is direction the way the company's going. And two people raised their hand and said, like, we are willing to sacrifice in the short term because we believe in the vision too. And that was Jeff Dobrikowski and Pam Vroman who were at DML too. It's successful refinance loan officers. And you heard a little bit about how Pam crushed it. Yep. And still does crush it. Still does very much crush it. And Dobe's too, but they both took hits early on and helped us build up. you know, the relationship management piece. That's great. Look, now you're in 2024, we're all still relationship managing in a town like Baltimore. Your reputation is really important. I mean, talk to me about that reputation management as you and Ashley get going. Well, I don't really give a shit what people think about me. So I'm not as worried about the relationship management if I know that I'm doing the right things or not the relationship management, but I'm not as worried about the...

Direct Mortgage Loans (29:

04.468) reputational management. If you know you're doing the right things. Yeah, with my people and they know that that's what's going on. It's not to say that like it's not important for DML to have a good reputation. I think we do, but I think that relationship management is really a part of life. Absolutely. It's more than just even at work. It's, you know, your relationship with your family. It's your relationship with your friends. It's all of it. And believing in oneself, I love that you said a second ago, believing, if you believe it yourself, then other people are gonna follow suit, I believe. So when you said, I don't care what other people think, what you really mean, I think, is if I believe in it, that leads the way. Other people will believe it more if I believe it. Yeah, I feel like if you're asking a question, like as to maybe one of the reasons how I've crushed it, and I say that, also feeling like I have so much more way to go. More crushing to do. I've well said. if more crushing to do, it would be because I've valued relationships along the way and learned to value that. And certainly I've been lucky with people that have come into my life, but that has been important. Well, I see that in you. I mean, look, valuing relationships and prioritizing them is crucial just to be a good human. I mean, it's also crucial if you're a business leader. or if you're a sales leader. And I know we all do it here. You know I do it, you do it, Ashley does it. Everybody in our place is doing it, that's great. Now, here in 2024, what's a day and a week look like for Mike Naylor? You're a CEO, I mean it's important to ask this because I know you're still selling, you're still relationship managing, a lot of that, and I wanna give people a little insight, because I know the answer, but I want people to get an insight into the craziness or chaos or... multiple channels that you're dealing with? Well, I'm a dad and a husband first. So that is where my day starts and ends. And certainly it's sprinkled in throughout the day. But, you know, I have three kids, five, eight, and ten. And so my mornings are chaos. And fortunately, I have an amazing wife who restores order and chaos in both my house and...

Direct Mortgage Loans (31:

17.326) at DML. I witnessed it. No, I'm not gonna comment. I'm the host today. I'm not your buddy Dean today. They're wonderful kids. It's just, you know, I mean, everybody, any parent understands like it's, you know, with the Johnson boys getting everybody off to school in the morning. Oh, believe me. We have a one -year -old dog named Nacho and he's learning how to fit in and he's amazing. And so, you know, the morning starts with me waking up, working out, getting in the sauna and then diving in and trying to help with lunches or. ego waffles or whatever the situation calls for. From there, get into work and that's kind of where the madness starts. My day normally starts with outlining what I want to accomplish that day and I just work off that list. Is that, hold on, is that a daily task? Do you do that, are you consistent with that? Yeah, every single day. Yeah, every single day I would... Afra mentioned ADHD would pull me in several directions if I don't have something to come back to and go, oh, I got these five listeners. Whether you have ADHD or not, staying organized and ahead of time. Well, I'm old enough that it was ADD. I mean, that's what it was. But now that doesn't exist. Apparently, it's ADHD. But yeah, I'm just trying to make the point. All the best people I talk to say a version of what you just said. All the most productive people, all the most successful people stay organized and map to some degree what they're going to try to accomplish or else. Chaos ensues. Absolutely. Fair statement? Yeah, sure. Yep. So, you know, depending on the day, it's either coaching and spending time with our sales leaders or running strategy meetings with DML's leadership team. Could be on recruiting phone calls and Zooms and Teams and whatever that situation is. And then, you know, probably my favorite thing to do is to go visit and get face to face with. the DML people that are spread out throughout the country and the different offices that we have. Well, that's something I wanted to ask in a follow -up question, too. You've got such a history and such a success with sales and marketing. Do you enjoy coaching it? Yeah, for sure. I mean, that, to me, like if you think about, we talked about relationship management and relationship development. I mean, the coaching piece is both. I mean, you're developing and advancing a relationship that you already have and you're...

Direct Mortgage Loans (33:

35.534) managing one at the same time. I mean, with the coaching thing allows us to help people achieve those goals. We talked about our team and our people need to be successful before we are, otherwise the whole thing crumbles. And, you know, understanding what someone's personal goals are and their professional goals are is super important to me because if I can play even a small part in it, it makes my day fantastic. It makes my day a win. But for any industry, and this is where I like to make sure we're passing nuggets out there that can help anybody listening today, but for any industry, I believe that's true that, giving back, investing in your people and coaching your people creates a multiplier effect. I mean, there's not always a specific ROI like, hey, I did this coaching in this person. They might not have increased their business, but they're better. And if the more of it you do, I believe there's a multiplier effect in there for any organization. You agree? I agree completely. Yeah. Okay. Here's the thing, everybody. He and I could talk and do this for about five or six hours. We keep the podcast semi -manageable, but you know, Put a cherry on top of it a little bit for me though. We've talked about your story and we've talked about how coaching's been so important at DML and I've watched you coach and you're really good at it. I mean, all the way down to tactical things. What are some of your greatest lessons from that to help? So you're crushing it and your job really, a lot of our jobs is to help other people now learn to crush it or continue to crush it. What are some of your greatest lessons or even tactical things that you're doing? or have learned that are helping you be great at that. Because even though you've coached for a while, the joke I like to make is you're getting older and some of the people we bring in are getting younger. Careful, careful. We're getting older and the people we're coaching are staying the same age. All right, so I think I'm never satisfied. So how I've crushed it, again, I feel like I still have a long way to go, but I'll never coach from a spot of, hey, I've crushed it, you should listen to me. It's never that, it is. Hey, let me show you the scars that I have and the mistakes that I've made. And my goal in doing that is to help you get to where you want to go faster than I made it to that point. Because I can help you not make a left -hand turn when you should have made a right. So it comes from a spot of that. But I think in general, like the biggest mistake that I see people make is they give up and they give up too soon. It is, you know, if you're asking like, what lesson have I learned as I look back?

Direct Mortgage Loans (35:

59.182) what did I do that maybe set me apart is I just never gave up. A golfer recently said it in a way that I love, Tony Fennell said, a winner is just a loser that never gave up. So you see people that get into a sales role or any role really, it doesn't really matter, and they expect success immediately. And that just isn't it. You gotta start and you gotta get your teeth kicked in as a telemarketer and you gotta... You know, you got to mess up managing, whatever it is, you got to go through the trials and tribulations. Stay in the game. Yeah, and you got to give yourself, you got to give yourself freedom to make those mistakes and you got to give yourself room to learn and room to grow. And I think that, you know, along the way, the uncomfortable stuff and as decisions come up that you have to make or opportunities exist and you go, oh man, that's, that looks tough. Like that's where the actual growth is, is in. is in those tough spots and generally, I will make a decision based on whether or not it scares me. Well, there's that old cliche, growth occurs on the edge of your comfort zone. It's not inside, growth does not occur inside the comfort zone. And Mike, this is one I didn't tell you I was gonna ask you. What's that sign that sits next to your desk say with Rocky? Yeah, that's like one of my favorite quotes. It says, you know, life's not all sunshine and rainbows and it's. not about how hard you can punch, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. You hear that one everybody, how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. Sylvester Stallone can take credit for that. Rocky Six, I think it is. We've talked about it a bunch and I think that's a great summary lesson. I tell my kids, stay in the game, keep going forward. Yeah, stay in the game, exactly right. One foot in front of the other. We always kind of, our last segment is usually, we talked about... what you've been doing. We talked about what you did way back when, and you got a company that's definitely charging into the future. But March of 2024 lesson for anybody in any business that you'd want to pass along. What is happening right now today? So yep. So right there for me, which is surround yourself with people that are better than you. And don't be afraid to do it. I think that there's no growth if you are the smartest person in the room. So the advice I'd give is...

Direct Mortgage Loans (38:

16.994) Find people who are better than you. It could be at golf or tiddlywinks. It doesn't really matter. Surround yourself with people that you admire and respect and have something to learn from. And then check your ego at the door and shut up and listen. That's wonderful, wonderful stuff. Look, I wrote down a couple of notes as we're going out of here. I mean, I didn't know the story about you. locking yourself in the reception area of Under Armour for two days. And even though it didn't work out, I guess you learned a lesson in perseverance there. So people, persevere. Persevere. I wish, I do wish though you would have jogged a Fila from the car accident, but it was a little far based on what we talked about. But be exceptional, everybody. Challenge yourself to be exceptional. That one's staying with me. It's gonna be a Mike Naylorism. I'm gonna quote you and give you the credit. Your people need to be successful first. I love that one and never give up, never be satisfied. Well look everybody, this is a guy here in Maryland crushing it, here in our industry crushing it and I love being in business with you man, I'm proud of it and everything he said is spot on. He means it, it's from the heart. I've talked about a lot of this in the past, so thanks for being here and thanks for crushing it and by the way, thanks for sponsoring, this whole Sponsor by Direct Mortgage Loans podcast, it's Direct Mortgage Loan, hmm. employees that handle this, edit it, and set it all up. It's a great idea and I'm glad you're supporting it. I'm flattered that you wanted me here and maybe some point I know that you have a big story and lots of success and are crushing it and maybe one day we'll flip this around and I'll ask you how you crush it. Maybe and we did, by the way, we talked about having our guy Mike on as our first guest but we wanted to work out the kinks. My friend behind the camera over there is laughing at me because we wanted to get it all kind of worked out and figure out. You know how we do is a real professional operation over here. I'm impressed with everything I'm seeing. right here. There's a board here. Yeah, this is a nice setup here. Yeah, and DML's office in Timonium. Well, look, man, I appreciate you being here. Friend crushing it. He's crushed it. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. We'll see you next time.

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